So many people have stopped by to check this interview out that I thought I would do another post where I answer some of the same questions, only about Shadow of the Colossus. I don’t imagine a western developer weighing with their take on a Japanese developer's game is as intriguing or exciting as when the situation was reversed. But what the hell…It’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to, right? Plus I am such a huge fan of their games that I love any chance to talk about them.I am also going to do a post after this that answers the questions the curious gamer form Illinois posed in the comments. That will be coming soon, until then; here is my interview…with myself. This seems to be a growing trend…me interviewing myself. Which is lame, I know, but it seems no one else is interested in asking me questions.
Q: Have you finished Shadow of the Colossus yet?
Yes. When I first picked the game up, we had an early copy floating around the office, I played through a large portion of it in one sitting, but then things got kind of hectic at work so my play time had to slow down a bit. After a month or so I got the retail copy of the game and started over, playing sporadically over the course of a few weeks. Then I stopped for awhile, went back to it, and got to the final boss which proceeded to kick my ass. I knew exactly what to do, but I kept falling off when I would finally get tot the head. After a few times of that I frustrated and stopped, knowing I would come back again at a later time when I was fresh and finish it off. What I didn’t know is that wouldn’t be for like 8 months. But now, I can say I have finished the game and I loved it.
Q: What was your first impression of Shadow of the Colossus?
Unlike my first experience with Ico, Shadow grabbed me right away. With Ico my first experience did not grab me right away, I needed to step away from that game and come back to it to really appreciate what it was they were doing with the development of the relationship between Ico and Yorda. Once I did I was blown away with how much the ending of that game affected me as a player. It was quite possibly one of the strongest moments I have ever seen in a game.
With Shadow I was more prepared for what to expect, and I was immediately pulled into the experience. I was in awe of the scope and scale of the world. It felt like my little playground. The presentation and art style really sparked something in my imagination and I immediately felt connected to this world. It took me a while to find my first Colossus since I really did not understand the whole gleaming sunlight off the sword mechanic. I kind of wandered around on the horse for a long time marveling at the scope of the world. I found the forest, and got off Argo and walked around a bit. I played with calling the horse mechanic, which was really simple but it was doing something on such a subtle level I almost missed it. During all of this exploration I was establishing my relationship with Argo. As cheesy as it sounds, we were discovering these things together. When I would run him at full speed towards an upcoming cliff he would come to a skidding stop. He was telling me his limits, which served to flesh him out as a real character to me. Perhaps I am overanalyzing this, but I really do think this kind of interactive character development that Ueda and his team do is second to none. Very few games can get you to care about a bunch of polygons without using words.
Finally Argo and I stumbled on an area that looked like I could platform on. So I got off Argo, and left him down below as I ascended up into the unknown. As I was climbing up I was struck with mixed emotions. It was the first time I felt a small hint of concern for leaving Argo behind, as well as being the first time that I really felt that I was onto something. For the first time in a long time, I really felt like I was exploring in a game world, and it was amazing. Making the final jump up I knew something big was about to happen, but I was totally unprepared for what did happen. Seeing that first colossus has been burned into my brain. The music swelled perfectly as this gigantic colossus lumbered out through the fog. I was feeling the same sense of discovery that the character was feeling. That same sense of discovery I had when I played the original Tomb Raider, or when I was wandering around the various areas of Morrowind III. This sense of discovery was immediately followed with a smile when I realized I could run up to this thing and actually climb on it.
The mechanics for the climbing were perfect, simple and somewhat intuitive. I say somewhat because the grip meter took me a bit of time to really adjust to but once I figured it out it was no problem. That is the thing about this game; so much of it is about the players’ discovery of not only the world and its characters, but the mechanics and play as well. There is a patience to the design and pacing that, to me, is hard to do right. If you do it wrong it makes the game feel boring and uneventful, but if you do it right it is really something spectacular. The Shadow/Ico team has a sensibility, a subtly to their approach that may take a little patience to see but is so unbelievably worth it.
Q: Perhaps this sensibility opened your eyes, right?
Yeah it did. I think a lot of people would say that God of War is a bit more of the in your face ‘Hollywood’ movie style presentation, which for the most part is considered a western style of presentation. Although I don’t think that is totally accurate since there are so many great eastern films that have the same intensity and over the top quality. I mean, look at Hard Boiled; I wouldn’t say that is very ‘Hollywood’. It’s a style all its own, one which westerners immediately began incorporating or copying.
What they did with Shadow, the sheer simplicity of their approach really made me take a harder look at how I approach various aspects of making a game. I don’t think I will ever make a game in the same way that they do, because that is really just not my style. But there is so much I learned, and am still learning, from what they do.
With God of War, we want the player to always feel like they are experiencing something new, and that everything you are doing is clearly part of the bigger picture. In that respect, we will tend to try and find clever ways to guide or lead the player without them knowing that is what we are doing. Essentially we are leading the player along by a thread, once which we try hard to be as invisible as possible. Sometimes this works, and sometimes it does not. With Shadow and Ico, there is a sense of cutting that thread and empowering the player to freely explore, while still remaining on a somewhat straight narrative path. It’s not sandbox but, especially with Shadow, it kind of feels like it. I loved that. Even though our games are not that similar, there is something to be learned there.
Q: Has Shadow of the Colossus inspired you in any way?
Very much so. I mean the opening of God of War II was partially inspired by what I saw in Shadow. We knew we were not going to be able to do the full on climb on the Colossus thing, but the sense of scale, the whole David vs. Goliath thing they captured so well in Shadow, was something I wanted to achieve in the opening of the game. But I wanted to do it with our own sensibility, our own style.
Another thing they did so brilliantly is, with very few words, they made me care more about a character than I ever have in a video game. In that regard, I am so completely inspired. I hope that I can evoke the same emotional response that they did with Yorda and Argo in all the games I do in the future. To me that is the holy grail of games right now…getting players to feel something other than fear or anger.
I have to say that as much as I admire those guys, and feel I have so much to learn from them, I don’t think I could make the same type of games they make. Perhaps it is because I have such a ‘western-short-attention-span-need-some-ridolin’ mentality? Probably not though, I love to play their games, but I love to make a very different type of game. You know…the type that punches you in the stomach in the first five minutes, as opposed to one that slowly creeps up on you. Both are very effective, the latter is especially effective when handled in the way Ueda and his team do it.
Ok...I need to get back to work now. Stayed tuned for more.
cory
21 comments:
sweet. someone interview this man.
i would interview in a second. but i dont even have a blog. lol. you should go on teh full moon podcats(insomniac game's podcast). or how about the playstation nation podcast. i listen to thsoe two so pick one lol.
Cant wait for your next game.
Sean P.
The god of War series and Shadow are all AAA titles. It is you guys that makes this industry move forward. Thank you and good luck with future projects.
oqcvtlrjBrainwashing the Bloggers
August 4th, 2007, 4 Comments
Publishers of games and movies commonly engage in questionable behavior to garner favor with reviewers and other influential tastemakers. Sometimes this is fairly blatant with fully paid exotic trips, gifts, and even blatant cash payoffs, but it’s usually more subtle with exclusive event invites, prestigious parties, executive interviews, and well-placed flattery.
Successful Flattery vs. a Backfired Bribe
Read these quotes and decide whether the journalist was successful flattered and his goodwill secured or whether the attempt was unsuccessful:
From a recent interview with Joystiq, Kotaku, and Destructoid:
Joystiq: “I think everybody here, I’m sure, would agree that Microsoft goes above and beyond. They really bend over backwards to help out blogs and treat us like peers.
Destructoid: “We get a lot more attention from Microsoft obviously. They really do reach out to the blog community.”
Joystiq: “Other companies, like Sony, came around really late. They just started talking to Joystiq at all, just recently. That [the PS blog] was the first time we’ve had any kind of official involvement with Sony.”
Now read these quotes from a recent Arstechnica article with the headline, “Sony cancels press junket with $1,000 payout for writers”
The event has since been canceled, without explanation (likely because of the bad publicity, and we’d like to think that most journos told them to stuff it). While you can’t conclusively say this is a bribe or would have resulted in biased coverage, Sony basically paying the rent of writers in exchange for a trip that no one can write about seems very shady.
The Microsoft flattery worked. They didn’t rely on something crass like cash payoffs or limos or exotic vacations. Microsoft made them feel special: “like peers” as Joystiq said. Do you know how great it feels for a young unaccomplished English major to get direct attention and compliments from big name Microsoft execs? Notice that both Joystiq and Destructoid used very gentle and favorable language when discussing Microsoft: “They really bend over backwards to help out blogs” or “They really do reach out to the blog community”. Of course, Microsoft’s true motives are obvious: they want favorable coverage from influential sites.
Sony’s attempt at currying favor clearly backfired. Arstechnica ran an accusatory headline and tells Sony to “stuff it”.
However, the same Arstechnica is clearly not immune to flattery. Arstechnica can be seen covering Microsoft interviews in a rather favorable light. In this interview, the same Arstechnica writer visits Microsoft and glorifies Microsoft’s upscaling technology while bashing the PS3. From a technical perspective this is absolutely ridiculous; the *exact* same upscaling is done internally by HDTVs with zero quality difference. Or in this interview, another Arstechnica writer interviews a Microsoft employee, a “top gun”. The employee is flattered and glorified as he promotes various Microsoft technologies and openly bashes the PS3 and the Cell CPU. Arstechnica may not have accepted cash or fancy vacations and accommodations from Microsoft, but Microsoft’s promotion efforts clearly worked.
For Microsoft, influencing young and weak-minded gaming journalists is child’s play. As reported by news.com, Microsoft is involved in the higher stakes realm of government lobbying in a big way:
Microsoft, which leads lobbying expenditures among hardware and software companies, is one of the largest spenders on government travel as well.
Sony isn’t innocent in this regard either. While many movie publishers have found movie reviewers who will blatantly sell positive review quotes for a fee, Sony Pictures was busted in 2001 for taking this a step further and using a completely made up movie reviewer.
the horses name is Agro.
Hi,
Really great read. I was a fan of Shadow the second I saw one of the collosi at my friend's house. That's when I decided I WANT this game. Funnily, the moment didn't come until I picked up a PS3 and Shadow... but hey, I can atleast experience it with an upscaler on a 1080p TV which so kicks ass.
The second I saw the first boss fight in God Of War 2, I immediately thought Shadow. However, I wouldn't say that you guys ripped off Shadow, because in God of War, it's much more action-oriented...
I'm also seeing a change in how many more western developers are breaking away from the "hollywood" action sequences and are actually taking time to craft a superb storyline, and hone in on the overall game presentation.
Queston: Do you think that the whole "numbness" and subtle presentation of the sandbox, but dead world in Shadow made some gamers put it down immediately?
I'll keep an eye on your blog, since I'm going into the video game industry ;).
I know this was a mirror to the Ueda interview, but I was a little surprised that you didn't really mention anything about the animation in SoTC since that's what you specialize in y'know. I was blown away but the little nuances and subtleties of the animations in the game, Like Wander's legs, the way he staggers against the shock waves in the crowd. Or other things like Agro going to drink from a body of water nearby when he's around it for long. Riding birds, Doing the swan dive. Everything had a weight to it, a tone that just felt right with the world in terms of animations. It was visually stellar man.
To be very honest, I wasn't much of a fan of GoWII, mainly because I'm more the RPG type, But You really Took the time to analyze the game, and I'm impressed with your Views, I'll definatly pick up GoWII tomorrow because I know there was so much work behind it. Thanks for a good read man.
-Leon
"The Breakdown"
The Elder Scrolls III, not Morrowind III. ;)
Great read, would like to see more devs discussing eachother's work.
I recently sat down and watched a friend play through my copy of GOWII and was astounded at how satisfying it was to simply watch. I garnered just as much enjoyment from watching as I did from playing, I think that's a real testament to the camera design - it's not something you have time to appreciate while playing (because it's doing its job so well!).
for what its worth, when asked for 4 "must have" games for the ps2 games recently on evilavatar's forums, my answer contained the following in order of preference:
shadow of the colossus
ico
god of war 2
god of war 1
you must have done something right!
i enjoyed this self-made interview. perhaps it will generate interest in creating a real dialog between developers, especially dev's of high calibre such as yourself and the ico team.
I Think Corey's Well Hot!
Shadow of the Colossus and God of War 2 kept me glued to my TV for about a solid week, but the fragmented nature of SotC has me popping it in for play more often the God of War 2. It's also one hell of a set piece game, and the time trials make it easy to jump right into an epic battle.
Still, comparing them is like comparing Princess Mononoke to Gladiator - very east versus west. Doesn't stop them both from being awesome!
Good read ... great games.. thanks for your collective efforts!
Shadow is one of those games you play and has so many subtle discoveries in it. The lizard tail hunting to, the fruit gathering, increases your stats. The grunts and yelps from your main character to show the struggle he is having.
The fact that killing an enemy seems so sad as if you are killing the Loch Ness Monster or a rare bird.
Wonder if this influenced you (Cory) to add a Colossus-like enemy in God of War II x-D: the Titan Minotaur. Challenge of the Titans and Titan mode kicked my ass, though eventually, I got through them. The feeling of finally getting through those modes was all worth it though. I really like that you actually feel like you are a better God of War player as you are playing through the game, especially on multiple playthroughs. Normal mode seems like a cake walk after being utterly destroyed by the winding path to Clotho and protecting the translator in Titan mode. I'm an extras type of person, so I really enjoyed all the extras that came with God of War I/II--seeing all the concept art, cut levels, and the personalities behind the game makes me love the game that much more. Here's hoping that God of War III or whatever does the same and comes with those kind of extras.
*slight spoilers*
About Shadow:
Yeah, I admire how Shadow evokes an emotion that not many games touch upon; the feeling of being entirely alone in a massive, expanse unknown land, with little hope. This characterizes Agro (your horse) and makes you feel for it. Your all alone and all you have to rely on is your trusty steed. I can't express how sad I was when Agro fell into a chasm near the end of the game. I was just like what the heck just happened... I just couldn't believe that my horse was gone. I was definitely surprised at how much I liked that game. They've done so much with, so little; little actual storyline presented, very few items, no stats, and 16 bosses with no smaller enemies--one thing it does have is a massive world. You don't know who the Wanderer is, yet you still can sympathize with him; I have to save Mono (the girl on the pedestal)! Whoever she is x-D.
~I swear, last thoughts
But enough rambling, good luck with God of War III(?). You've already done what many thought was impossible and topped the first God of War. By far, you have not "fucked up God of War," on the contrary, you have solidified the game as a quality series and brought even more respect to the franchise. Hats off to you.
Capturing the imaginations of players is a holy grail to me. There's no clear-cut path to achieving this, and it seems like this is something that few developers even think about.
The first instance of a game director going on the record for saying he wants to see players use their imaginations is Kazuya Niinou on Etrian Odyssey. Read Director Diary #5 on the official website.
Your take on Shadow is a very nice compliment to Ueda's take on God of War ][!
Alright, interview time Cory. Kissing ass is good and all, but you've heard enough I am sure (and you will keep hearing more!).
1) You mentioned you were inspired by Shadow of the Colossus, has Sony expressed any desire to give you freedom to create a new IP outside of God of War?
2) Without specifics (I know about confidentiality), can you tell us what we might expect from your new IP?
3) What are your thoughts on the Ninja Gaiden / Black / Sigma? I am interested in that because it's a more similar game than Shadow.
4) Any plans to direct a major Hollywood film? Looking at Tetsuya Nomura from Square's Advent Children, I would say game creators may push the movie going experience due to increased creativity.
5) I wonder, will Kratos show he has a heart in game 3? An emotional attachment in a non-cheesy way could well push the boundaries again to the franchise.
6) Got any gaming / Graphic Design job connections in the Minnesota area?
7) Do you have any advice for up and up and coming Cory's out there as for how to get anywhere in the gaming industry? I am a graphic designer right now, for a very corporatey, not-gaming business.
8) Can you make it in gaming with extreme creativity, yet not elite artistic ability? If so, how so?
Thanks for the great gaming moments!
-Scott
scott1up@hotmail.com.
that's bullshit linda hunt was way better than that's gears guy
hello cory first of all i m a big fan of yours n jaffe n i thank u guys sooooooo much for giving us gamers a true master piece in the form of GOW
....mere words cant do justice to tis epic game..
talkin bot SOtC.. wat can i say it has to be counted in the same calibre as tat of GOW these two games r an experince of a life time..
even thought these games r much simillar in the lines....GOW s lik stand n deliver there s a sudden rush of adrenalin playin kratos its lik gettin on a high..v get the same courage tat of kratos a heart of a lion...
but SOtC s a different domain all together ..there s a unique feeling of voidness n sullen calm while playing tat game tat cant be explained
both these games r a legend in themselves tat the human race can remember for as long as it exists thanks again n expecting many more from u guys as well as team ICo..
That was a fascinating read, made more so by the translated Ueda interview posted below it. I'd love to see more pairs of interviews in this style, featuring a variety of game developers. Of course it would be unreasonable to expect you to personally make this happen, but maybe a gaming publication or website will use a similar interview format at some point. It would be a pity to let such a good idea go to waste.
Your impression of SOTC is much like my own, except by the time I was able to play it I knew more about what to expect than I would have liked, which diluted sense of awe that came with encountering the first Colossus. Regardless, the game is one of the most affecting and memorable I've ever played. It's so simple, yet it evokes such a strong range of emotions. A true modern classic.
I appreciate that you mentioned Morrowind, a game I deeply treasure for the overwhelming sense of history and scale it makes me feel. Have you read many of the in-game books? The complexity of the fiction--how dozens upon dozens of short stories are woven into and around each other to flesh out a world whose scope utterly eclipses that of the main narrative--is staggering. I doubt many gamers invested the time to really dig deep into what Morrowind offers. That's a shame, because they're missing out on an unspeakably rich and compelling world. I have yet to play Oblivion (I know, WTF amirite?), but I'll be pleased if it recaptures a fraction of its predecessor's magic.
As for GOW2, what can I say? I'm one of those gamers who admires GOW 's ambitiousness but feels it's marred by some major flaws that stop it from being all that it could have been. GOW2 goes above and beyond by avoiding just about all of the first game's problems, building on its very best attributes, and introducing a substantial amount of new features and fresh content. It's engaging from start to finish and has ridiculous replay value. If that's not the textbook definition of a fantastic action game, let's burn that stupid book and play more GOW2.
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